Comm. College enrollment: auto technology vs computer technology

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I D Shukhov

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Posts: 1703

09/07/08 11:14:36

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Every auto repair technology class I looked at is now full for the Fall semester

Example:

TTG436: ASE A-5 Brakes Prep	Register
Course prepares you for the ASE A-5 Brakes technician certification exam. Course discusses purpose, parts, operation, failure diagnosis, and repair of disc and drum brake systems. ABS operation, diagnosis, and repair is included.

ENROLLMENT IS FULL

Only one IT class is full: Cisco CCNA Complete

There were 91 IT sections

There were 21 auto tech sections

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The Original Dinosaur

#1

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Posts: 4215

09/07/08 11:26:48

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It would seem that the perception is that auto repair is easier to learn and/or better paid and/or steadier work.

Another perception - as green regulations cause cars to become more expensive, fewer people will buy them, instead putting the money into repairs. It's a well-known phenomenon that replacement-part sales go up when new-car sales go down and vice versa.

War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; [much worse is] the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war. — John Stuart Mill

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I D Shukhov

#2

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Posts: 1704

09/07/08 11:34:06

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I just thought of another possibility. You can't study auto repair at college. However, you can become a certified mechanic at a community college and get a decent job, or even become a small business owner. People probably realize that taking a Java class at a community college will not qualify you for employment. First you have to go to college, take the Java course, and *then* realize that you are not qualified for employment because there are cheaper offshore and "highly qualified" H-1B alternatives.

This process of the good life is not, I am convinced, a life for the faint-hearted. It involves the stretching and growing of becoming more and more of one's potentialities. It involves the courage to be. It means launching oneself fully into the stream of life. Carl Rogers

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G0ddard B0lt

#3

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Posts: 6924

09/07/08 12:05:38

I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?

I think the word is out that IT and computer programming are stupid career paths to follow now.

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John Masterson

#4

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Posts: 5793

09/07/08 12:07:47

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G0ddard B0lt wrote:
I think the word is out that IT and computer programming are stupid career paths to follow now.

I agree. And yet I think this could create an opportunity in a few years, particularly from businesses who have been burned by poorly trained H1Bs building broken systems.

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention
of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body,

but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up,
totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming . . .

"Wow! What a ride!"

--- Suz Doyle

Last Edited By: John Masterson 09/07/08 13:16:59. Edited 1 time.

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G0ddard B0lt

#5

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Posts: 6925

09/07/08 12:19:23

I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?

And here's the problem with that assumption: if you're sidelined or otherwise don't do programming for a few years, you will almost surely lose the ability to self start and to do the work. The "opportunity" will be moot. And that's if you're really good.

No, I think what will probably happen will be that off the shelf packages will dominate businesses, and in a few more years, very few businesses will even try to undertake development projects. The lack of qualified people (because they were mostly forced out and the remaining ones are in niches) will eliminate programming as a business enhancement tool.

I had a hiatus of a year where I didn't program at all. It has been absolute murder getting back up to speed. And this has been with a lax situation that I can mold to my own needs and schedule.

"Finding a great US based commercial application programmer in 2013" will be like saying "finding a great buggy whip manufacturer who sells in lots of 100,000."

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I D Shukhov

#6

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Posts: 1705

09/07/08 12:56:46

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And here's the problem with that assumption: if you're sidelined or otherwise don't do programming for a few years, you will almost surely lose the ability to self start and to do the work. The "opportunity" will be moot. And that's if you're really good.

I'm finding this is true with Java technologies. I'm trying to teach myself Spring. As we all know it's not rocket science, but it's not trivial either. If some smart Asians have a decent lead time with Eclipse, Maven, various Java EE and SOA frameworks and about a couple of dozen other tools they've been working with for a few years it's going to be tough to catch up.

OTOH, I think John's point is well taken. This stuff is here to stay. The perception is going into a trough right at the time that businesses need an online presence to stay competitive. For example, I think the car companies who realize that they are partners with their customers in keeping them happy (as opposed to selling cars) will survive. When something goes wrong, the customer should have access to the company's defect database (transparency) instead of them covering up and grudgingly issuing a few recalls and semi-hidden TSBs (Technical Service Bulletins). Even if GM can't make decent cars, they can at least be transparent and help fix the cars they make. They need to reach out online to customers in a serious way. I think it's their only hope, but they don't seem to realize it.

This process of the good life is not, I am convinced, a life for the faint-hearted. It involves the stretching and growing of becoming more and more of one's potentialities. It involves the courage to be. It means launching oneself fully into the stream of life. Carl Rogers

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John Masterson

#7

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Posts: 5794

09/07/08 13:27:09

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Boy, good thoughts from both of you guys.

I don't know. Goddard is right that it's all going to be adapting packaged software created by software companies who employ "real" programmers. Certain packages prove themselves to be best of breed, and become widely adopted because they work well, and are easy to adapt.

This adaptation will be the primary job for business "programmers".

I don't see us ever going back to the time when every company "built their own radios", so to speak, to use the analogy of the new technology of the early 1900s.

As long as I have been involved with programming, the move has been from "assembler language" to "Visual Basic"...higher level snapping together of objects and "parts". That will continue.

Where will the need be for the guy who was GREAT at "programming of the 1980s"? What were they good at, and where will those skills be in demand?

Just thinking out loud.

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention
of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body,

but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up,
totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming . . .

"Wow! What a ride!"

--- Suz Doyle

Last Edited By: John Masterson 09/07/08 14:05:26. Edited 1 time.

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G0ddard B0lt

Extinction of demand

#8

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Posts: 6926

09/07/08 13:47:44

I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?

Right. I see the problem now as one of a specific type of option for business tool creation vanishing because there are no practitioners available at any reasonable level. The scarcity of 1) senior 2) experienced & competent, NOT in a buzzword way but in actual matter of fact and 3) fluent English speaking and US - culture - capable workers will make internal IT development a pipe dream.

I think this has already happened in software product development, except on the coasts. No jobs means the people move on. The people move on means no senior talent. No senior talent means nobody to manage, lead, guide, mentor. It's the IT equivalent of sterilizing every fertile female in a species.

There's been virtually an ethnic cleansing of white European and otherwise US based citizen workers in IT who are stuck with our cost of living.

And if I see one more f*cking ad on Craigslist for "freshers", a Curry scented description of an entry level candidate, I'm going to vomit. After I send them an email screaming every obscenity in the book. Save that "freshers" shit for the Indian subcontinent and quit pandering to scabs.

Last Edited By: G0ddard B0lt 09/07/08 13:49:48. Edited 1 time.

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The Original Dinosaur

re: Extinction of demand

#9

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Posts: 4216

09/07/08 14:09:23

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A natural market phenomenon may be contributing. When computers were new, the was no software, so all computer buyers had to hire programming staff. Then manufacturers began providing OSs and other software, plus Share and Guide provided software via "buddy exchange". And finally, entrepreneurs started selling software. At each stage, the man-hour demand was diminished.

One problem with this model is that corporate IT departments are still struggling to build their own applications even when COTS is available, in order to justify building their empires. The trend continues to be less low-level coding and more high-level integration.

War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; [much worse is] the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war. — John Stuart Mill

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Comm. College enrollment: auto technology vs computer technology	09/07/08 11:14:36	I D Shukhov
Re: Comm. College enrollment: auto technology vs computer technology	09/07/08 11:26:48	The Original Dinosaur
Re: Comm. College enrollment: auto technology vs computer technology	09/07/08 11:34:06	I D Shukhov
Re: Comm. College enrollment: auto technology vs computer technology	09/07/08 12:05:38	G0ddard B0lt
Re: Comm. College enrollment: auto technology vs computer technology	09/07/08 12:07:47	John Masterson
Re: Comm. College enrollment: auto technology vs computer technology	09/07/08 12:19:23	G0ddard B0lt
Re: Comm. College enrollment: auto technology vs computer technology	09/07/08 12:56:46	I D Shukhov
Re: Comm. College enrollment: auto technology vs computer technology	09/07/08 13:27:09	John Masterson
Extinction of demand	09/07/08 13:47:44	G0ddard B0lt
re: Extinction of demand	09/07/08 14:09:23	The Original Dinosaur

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